We know that online dating is very much lopsided towards women. Women tend to get a significantly higher amount of emails/messages to them then guys receive from women. For example, it's not uncommon for an attractive woman to receive 50-100 emails a day versus maybe one to two, for a guy of equal attractiveness.
I'm sure of this because I have seen the dark side my friends. Yes, I created an experimental fake profile of a woman on the Plenty of Fish dating site, and what I saw shocked me.
Let's take a look at what the "other side" sees.
[WARNING: a few days after doing this, I had both my personal real account and my experiment account deleted. The PlentyofFish system seems to have several methods for detecting duplicate accounts, so you may not want to try this at home]
Not long after getting the profile setup by loading up a few pictures of a female I grabbed from another site and writing a quick generic description, I was quickly swarmed by dudes who wanted to IM me. Seriously, the little boxes were popping up every five seconds. This annoyed me to no end, so I quickly disabled the IM feature.
I let the account sit for about a day and a half and this is what I got:
In a little over a day, I received three pages of emails from different guys. That's approximately 60 emails total! This is pretty insane considering that the woman was of average looks and my own personal (male) profile barely gets one or two emails in a month, let alone every few minutes as this account did.
So one thing we can take away from this little experiment is that, if you are a guy, you have A LOT of competition for PlentyofFish dating. Not exactly a comforting thought is it?
But Wait!
It does gets better. After further analysis, the experiment showed that despite a tremendous amount of competition, a large majority of those guys, like 95% of them, are pathetic when it comes to online dating. Thus the competition is also weak.
The most notable weakness is the lack of any thought into how they initiate contact with a female on Plenty of Fish. If you look at the above screen shot again you'll notice that a large number of subject lines are simply lines like this: "Hey", "Hey there", "Hello" or "Hi."
A quick count through all of the subject lines gives me a total of 39 guys out of 60 who sent an email with some variation of "Hi" in the subject line. That's 65%! On top of that, the remainder subject lines were either really lame, rude or vulgar.
Now lets take a second and put ourselves in the shoes of this woman. If you are a busy attractive female and are receiving 60 emails a day from random men, whose email are you more likely to open? The ones that all say the same thing in the subject line or that one message with something clever, intriguing or at least different than a simple "Hey"?
Keep this in mind, as the next post about POF email messages, will examine the body of the messages that were sent to the experimental account and trust me, they're not pretty...
interesting stats Matt..
ReplyDeleteI thought the situation would have been reversed..
maybe the males need a lesson in how to write a unique greeting ;)
Kim,
ReplyDeleteI take it you've never used plentyoffish.com before, you'd be surprised at some of the drivel that guys are writing. I honestly couldn't believe some of the messages that my fake female profile received, it seriously made me realize how pathetic most of the members of my gender are...
Yep, very few guys are able to find the sweet spot using email/text. Sure, if you got a lot going for you you can get away with pretty much anything but very few guys are actually that good.
ReplyDeleteThe crappy messages are easy to discount. These are generally guys taking a long shot or are already in a defeated state.
The other type of messages are the ones professing some form of attachment or heavy attraction in the first message ... to a picture on the screen no less.
The best approach is to only send messages (initial) when you're in a confident fun mode and just keep it at conversation starter level and be a little playful.
Geez, you only have to do that for a little while and you will build up a pretty good selection of pr4ecanned messages to choose from after a while ... from there it is just point and shoot.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYou're right and it seems that if guys would just practice on their writing skills a bit and learn some fundamental aspects of attraction, it'd be like shooting fish in a barrel. Because the competition between other males on the site are so weak, it wouldn't take much to start reeling them in...
"it seriously made me realize how pathetic most of the members of my gender are..."
ReplyDeleteNice way of being misandrist.
I don't know if you have some vested interest in POF or are a women-firster, but so far from what I've gleaned from your blog here, you are both from what I've gathered.
Secondly, by employing a fake female profile to lure men in to garnering the response you are seeking, you are practicing DECEPTION. Since your tonality seems to be rooted in some form of moral higher ground, it does not bode well or give credibility to your little experiment. Plus, did you gear your profile to receive the responses you wanted? This is also manipulative and only serves to prove you right, not permit a less biased outcome.
You also went against POF policy by posting more than one profile, but hey, I'll let you off the hook for that one. Obviously, they did not.
You say that the competition between men is weak. In actuality, women have the pick of the lot at POF and other sites because the ratio of men to women is in their favor. Women can be afforded to be picky, snotty, arbitrary, and judgmental because they have a slew of men's profiles to select, and many are simply attention mongers that rarely meet men in person.
And from (what I gather) from other men's complaints, men are usually curt about contacting women because they know that a long essay length introduction doesn't usually yield a response---why waste time and energy into something that gives minimum attention? That's being practical and direct, not dancing around the issue.
BTW, I used to be on POF, and the PMs I received from women could be just as under-educated sounding as men. It was uncommon that one would write a meaningful and well written letter. I kid you not, one woman completely skirted my profile detail that I didn't want to see someone overweight as she was obese, and her PM was simply "Hi." That's it.
I seriously question your defense of POF.
Wytchfinde
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteFirst, to call me a misandrist is a bit out of line. I am certainly not a hater of the male sex and the purpose of this blog is to actually help males have a better online dating experience. Nor do I have any vested interest in PlentyofFish, except for my own dating, nor would I consider myself a woman firster, whatever that is.
So, did I create a deceptive profile? Yes. Was it ethical? Probably not. To be honest, I don't really care. The fake profile was up for two days, men sent emails to the account, but other than that there was no other manipulation. It was simple act to observe the difference between a female profile and a male profile.
You then go on to say, "You say that the competition between men is weak. In actuality, women have the pick of the lot at POF and other sites because the ratio of men to women is in their favor."
You are correct, women do have the pick of the lot, but this does not negate that the male competition is weak in online dating. You are comparing apples to oranges.
BTW, I'm not necessarily defending or supporting POF, simply writing my observations of what does and does not lead to attraction and real life dates.
Plenty of Fish is the most eleborate software programmed dating scam that uses fake dating profiles of men and women along with a "software programmed AI" system that automatically does the following: (1) generates fake "profile views" to your profile so when you "log in" it will show you some "women" or "men" that "viewed your profile recently". #2 When you email one of the fake profiles, ie, to some "woman" you'll notice your email is "read" or "deleted" or "read/deleted" within a few minutes of your sending it even if it is 3:00 am in the morning (the software automatically generates the "read/deleted" etc randomly to seem like a real person) is reading the message but it is not. It is just setting flags in a database - this explains why you email dozens of people yet get no "response" when you should be a perfect match for the women/man. #3 They used an automated method to "generate" fake profiles by "scraping" data from other dating sites, e.g. a computer program runs and hits specific dating sites, reads the profiles and adds the "member" to the POF database. #4 You'll notice that most women that email you are the ugly ones (the real members) #5 The big question for Markus Frind is (if his site is not fake) ... "Markus, please tell us how you went from 1 member to 10 Million members in a span of a few years with no investor money?"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous (above),
ReplyDeleteI can understand your frustration and why you would believe the above accusations. It does seem that there are definitely some sketch dating sites out there who inflate their member numbers with fake profiles and the like. I wouldn't be surprised if this was done in the beginning to get the site rolling, but I find it hard to believe that it occurs today, simply because I've read tons of blog posts by women who vent their frustrations about the poor quality of men on the site. I'm lead to believe that guys aren't getting responses for the same reasons they don't get dates in real life. They're just not displaying the kind of attraction that women are looking for.
As far as the site growing to 10 million members, it is because of publicity. Markus and POF have gotten tons of publicity throughout the blogoshpere and mainstream media, which would account for massive growth in numbers. Though I doubt that most members are active on the site.
Do you have any proof of your above accusations?
What publicity? I know all about dating sites, I've worked on them. Viral marketing is not as "easy" and "slam dunk" as people think. POF started in 2001 and even in the quiet times it was rampantly suspect of fake profiles. In addition, how many more men like you "created fake womens profiles" so there's another batch of "fake women" for men to email and to be eventually "unread/deleted" by the automated system eventually either once your account is suspended or what happens is the fake account you created is "suspended" and automatically becomes a AI profile. Think about it... all of these sites, MySpace, Facebook, POF do you really THINK they want to "lose" profiles...? No, they never do, that's why it's hard to delete them. They want the site to appear as active and plentyful of "stinky" fish as possible.
ReplyDeleteAs for the new service for "paid" dating on POF, I've already seen people "subscribing" to this "paid" service on the "100% FREE" Plenty of Fish site. It's so funny. Hmmm... It looks like Markus Frind is going to have to change all of his marketing strategy now since he's operating a "opt in" PAID dating site (like the ones he LOVEs to bash)... How laughable... As it is no one is serious on the site, now he's finally "acknowleged" that by adding a "pay service" to "prove" people are "serious" about dating on POF...That's such a good belly laugh... hahahaha...
First a few months ago, he tried to launch a rediculous "feature" where the POF suckers would pay $10-$30 to send a "virtual gift" to the women that are already "ignoring" the men, then when that failed miserably to a huge backlash, now he launches a monthly paid dating feature just so you can have a "gold icon" next to your picture (and STILL get ignored) ROFL... POF is going to implode eventually. They already are running algorithms to operate the millions of fake profiles on the site, remember right on POF's home page Frind states:
"3. Our success rate, matching algorithms and technology is unmatched, we are the only dating site capable of generating matches in real time. At 26 my algorithms and their results were cited in the Nobel Prize of Mathematics (Fields Medal) paper."
Hmmm... algorithms... just like the AI ones he made that operate the fake profiles that don't respond to emails...
Also, another point that proves he's full of shit and fake profiles is this statement on your "Sent Emails":
"Hey if you see unread deleted don't be disappointed, some users (.01%) get 100 new emails a day if they have a great picture up. People like that don't have time to read your message even if they wanted to."
Right, so all of the dozens of average-looking, non supermodel women (the majority of POF women) that you emailed on POF are all the "(.01%) get 100 new emails" and getting 100 emails a day? What a joke.
I just found this article on the web about "paying to be serious" on Plenty of Fish:
ReplyDeletehttp://dating.about.com/b/2009/03/09/pay-to-be-serious-at-plenty-of-fish.htm
Look at posts #7, #9 and #10:
#7 Don’t be conned. Plentyoffish.com is assigning those badges to profiles (only women that I know of so far) that didn’t ask for or pay for them. Some I talked to simply found them on their profile without being asked. Several women that I communicated with said they didn’t want them, when approached by Big Fish (presumably the site owner), and had them placed on their profile anyway. Emails to the site operators to remove them were met with silence.
It seems that PoF is trying to drum up business, particularly from males, by giving away these badges. I find that to be fraudulent as it is intended to be a filter: only those who are serious about finding someone would pay. “If you want others to know you are serious and you’ve put real effort into finding someone then you should get your serious member profile upgrade. Take a look at some of the screen shots below. Think about it, do you take people more seriously if they have paid for something?”
#9 Here is PoF’s response regarding my complaint about the women with the gold seal not having paid: “Free upgrades were awarded to random members chosen by the system that have proven to show regular activity on the site and good behavior. Users that we would consider to be Serious Members. Those that are not in agreeance with the label email us and we promptly remove the status from their profile. You can rest assured that after two weeks time, those users that do not see themselves as Serious Members are likely to have contacted customer service and downgraded their status, leaving you with a more defined idea as to who is serious about dating.”
#10 I showed PoF’s response to one of the women with the “Serious Member” who didn’t ask for it (and who has been trying to get it removed for a week) and she said “Wow what a bold faced lie.”
Interesting yes...? Hmmm...
“Free upgrades were awarded to random members chosen by the system that have proven to show regular activity on the site and good behavior.”
Sounds like Markus Frind is up to his old tricks again, now having the AI system upgrade the real female members and leaving the "fake" women AI accounts as "not serious" ...
Men are inherently logical and rational by nature. We approach everything we do from a systematic perspective, trying to find the most efficient way of getting things done. To ask or expect us to change is totally unreasonable; first, we can't. We are wired this way; our brains are biologically created to function in this manner. Second, it's offensive. This is a core attribute of our masculinity. How would you like it if men demanded women be less emotional? It's exactly the same thing. You can't help it, that's how you are.
ReplyDeleteThis includes dating and approaching women. Men learn pretty quickly that there is a fixed percentage of women who will respond positively, regardless of the amount of work put in. Women are very fond of saying "well, if he just read my profile, and knew something about me, and wrote a real email special just for me, I'd probably be interested", but we all know that's bullshit. All you do is look at the picture, and if you think he's hot, you'll check the other stats to see if he meets all your requirements, typically that he's over 6 feet tall, makes six figures in a professional career, has his own house, car, etc. The content of the first email doesn't matter, and we know that. It's just to get your attention, if you respond back, then it's game on and we put some effort into it.
In days, 60 guys expressed an interest. How many of those emails did you read? How many of their profiles did you review? None, I would guess. These guys took the very real chance of risking rejection by approaching you, and you come on to your blog, AND MAKE FUN OF THEM?! Wow! You've got some kind of nerve on you. Instead of being flattered and complimented, you subject these guys to public ridicule. Instead of writing a post, awesome subject lines, you focus on the negative.
So, you've got a stuck-up, inflated sense of self worth, and you like to make fun of people who try to initiate contact with you.
Wow, what a catch. Please, if I ever send you an email, don't respond. We'll be seeing you on Craigslist Rants & Raves in about 10 years after you're past prime, bitching about how much men suck and you can't find a decent one.
Perhaps the problem isn't men. Have you ever considered the possibility that you really are a miserable cunt with a shit attitude?
Anonymous (from post above),
ReplyDeleteDude, you are way out of line at the end of your comment. Did you even read the post?
First, of all, I am male, not female. Nor was I doing this experiment to inflate my own ego, which I don't think would be very effective using a fake female profile. The whole point of this was to show men the "other side" of online dating; to show a female's perspective of the PlentyofFish Inbox. So please, read the article before you start trash talking.
Now, as far as the emails that I received to this 'experimental' account, I did read them ALL and to be honest most of them deserved to be made fun of. Why? Because they were lame, crude and/or unoriginal.
I do agree with you, that the first email is only to get their attention. After that, it's mostly up to your profile to do the work. However, the key here is to actually get her attention which is a difficult thing to do when you are sending an almost identical "hey there" email as 60 other dudes.
First of all, Matt, I think what you're doing is great. Maybe slightly unethical, but it's way too amusing not to try. I made a recon profile yesterday. After 1 day, the profile received 40 messages. 39 of them had subject lines that were some variation of "Hi". The only one that was different was even worse. The subject line was "did I scare you". It was from a guy who had sent an earlier message that suggested getting a beverage with him. I can now clearly see why girls don't reply to the majority of messages sent their way. Only about 3 messages made any kind of attempt to comment on what was actually written in the profile. Most had nothing but a greeting, while the rest made some lame comment about appearance. I'm wondering if the messages would be better if I had put up a picture of a girl that was dressed more traditionally (the one I put up was in a bikini). I think most likely they would be about the same.
ReplyDeleteAlthough the messages I used to send from my actual POF profile weren't nearly as bad as the ones delivered to my recon profile, somehow seeing these messages must have helped me out because I've got 4 responses over the last two days, as opposed to none before that (I joined about two weeks ago).
Thanks for the good advice. Also, I think that you are doing a pretty good thing in some ways because you are helping some decent guys have a chance with the online dating as well as hopefully giving the women online some more interesting messages to read. It's not like you are teaching anyone to trick a woman into a relationship that she doesn't want. All you are doing is helping guys to know how to approach women online. The rest is up to the man/woman. Looking through some of your other posts, it seems that you have always advocated complete honesty in actual POF profiles. Keep up the good work. Most people will appreciate you for it.
Good on ya for your "recon," mate.
ReplyDeleteNow, try testing out the sword's other edge (forgive me if you've already done this, and I just haven't read about--I just found this blog, and it's 4.45am here):
Put up a male profile, but in that profile, bill yourself as someone who makes a 7-digit salary, has a McMansion and 2 Hummers, and use photos of the most drop-dead dreamboat movie-star guy you can find.
Then wait. The mails from women should start pouring in, per the accounts of others I've read who have tried this.
After sifting through the crap and initiating communication with someone you feel is worth your time, you go to your actual profile, and send mails from it to these same women, saying something to the effect that you have a friend (That would be the fake profile) who said he didn't think him and the woman you're writing were a match, but he thinks you should get in touch with her 'cuz you two would hit it off well.
Almost-guarnteed result for your actual profile: "Unread," "read (but no response, now or ever)," "Read/Deleted,"....you get the drift.
Conclusion, if the literally dozens of accounts I've read, and my own experiences on this utter shit site (I've been on about 6 months now) are anything to go by:
The majority of the women on this site are either shallow little ego/attention whores, or broken ex-sluts with three kids who want a sugar-daddy, or out-and-out gold-diggers, or lying sacks of fat with SEVERE issues...
My conclusion: PoF is a cesspit of garbage, who get their little ego-boosts by treating men like same.
Yes, I'm bitter...But also, much wiser now.
I also had a fake girl profile for my own experimentation, it was quite enlightening. I started writing message requisites on the profile, like "Don't just say hello or I won't respond.", "Please use proper English." and especially "Don't even bother messaging me if it's only because you think I'm hot, it's pathetic." (One guy even missed the keyword "only" and chewed me out for such a requisite.) Other than that, the profile pretty much catered to men (in fact it was my own idea of mixing myself with an unrealistically perfect girl (which led to some irony about how gay the men who responded ecstatically could have been)) so the inbox got flooded even after I changed the status and profile to say she was no longer single. I responded to one tailgate-partying dolt, but told him I'm not interested because he clearly wasn't my type, and that my type was someone much nerdier. This put him into denial mode and he kept asking for a pity exception or something, so I shot him down again and didn't respond to his next follow-up. He was clearly only interested in sex. In another case, some guy was hitting on me from 300 kilometers away and refused to realize why this was a problem. The mass majority of e-mails were typical, guys clearly not even reading the profile and breaking all the requisites! I pretty much stopped there for two reasons though, my research was complete and I felt guilty for the nice guys who spent the time to write thoughtful messages which I didn't have the time or cruelness to lead on for no reason. As for the research, I came to the same conclusions as you!
ReplyDeleteMatt, thank you for revealing the truth about online dating for women. As soon as I looked at that screenshot, I thought, "That looks exactly like my inbox."
ReplyDeleteSo many studies, etc. focus on the number of emails, IMs, winks, etc. that women receive (versus what men receive), but it helps to look at quality, not quantity. The vast majority of emails I get are form letters or, at a bare minimum, make it fairly clear that they haven't read my profile. Why email me if you don't want to get to know *me*?
I used to spend so much time carefully crafting my initial emails to guys and my replies to their emails, and I'd rarely get a response. It can be so frustrating. That's why I'm on hiatus from online dating.
POF sucks in every sense of the word. POF means "Peice of Feces"
ReplyDeleteMatt...you don't know what you are talking about. Either you have never been on the site over a long period of time, or you are Markus in disguise, trying to defend your site.
I have been on that site for a year, left and returned 9 months later for a 3 month stay, before I gave up, just last week. My profile(s) where complete, had atleast 3 current pictures..one was a full body shot,so that potential women can see that I am as advertised..Fit, athletic..etc. I had several narratives written and had them on file, so I can switch them out to ad some freshness to my profile. One I created with rap, one was a poem...ie.., all with humor, so that women can read and see the creativity that makes me, me.
Response was a read/delete or heaven forbid the unread/delete. In my tenor on POF, I have meet 4 woman, interacted with a few via IM, until POF discontiued it, and emails. Total emails send: atleast 300-500. Response 60% read/delete 30% unread/deleted. 7% dialogue going nowhere 3% email back and forth. The 4 that I met: All were not like their profile..yeah, those glamour shot photo, do make something that isn't, plus the addition 30 pounds. I assumed she got stung by a swarm of bee on the way to the coffee house.
Women get on that site to get their ego's stroked. I find it hard to believe that a woman would post a profile with little verbage and NO picture and have 100 guys as a favorite?
Too many dead profiles litter the site
Woman claim " I get too many emails, I cannot respond to all of them".. I have made suggestions that there should be a limit to how much emails a person should get. As well as a response, even if they are not interested, atleast a 10 word limit would prove that your mail was read and a response was real.
Paying member on POF? "Show the world that you are a serious member. Pay me 7 bucks and get a gold dot on your profile".
Why should I pay to be rejected? I can get that for free at the grocery store.
I would rather get on a paysite. Atleast there is a small level of quality.
Ever notice that the Canadian woman are bountiful and smok'n hot? I think ol' Markus comes from Canada.
How does POF make its revenue? What is a serious member, is this how they do it?
ReplyDeleteMatt's info is accurate. My experience matches Matt.....even worse
ReplyDeleteThe part about men sending lame messages a lot is true, but i'm here to tell you I don't send lame messages, I take the time to change the subject line....Try to ''connect'' with the girl by finding common ground between my interests and her interests and comments in her profile, try to put a little ''heart'' into it.
I am here to report that is NOT the answer, i've sent a very LARGE number of e-mails.....not too the most beautiful women....to people I feel I could connect with........the rate of no response at all is shocking and awful.....I'm not bad looking or have any major negatives......
This is just the way of the world here.
Don't thing match.com is better, my experience is that it's worse. Over there i've sent almost 50 e-mails.....got one reply....one reply from a girl telling me that she does not ''date my type''
I recieved on wink that led pretty much nowhere
I'm glad Matt did this and pretty much confirmed my experience and thoughts
Rob
Matt I must say that I think you did a great service here! I personally read through every single comment on this blog and it amazes me on how much patience you had with some of the rude ones. Kudos for that!
ReplyDeleteAs for your intent, I see it as noble! I'm a male and yes I've used POF among a few other dating sites. In reference to the accusations that they use some automated profiles, well I'm sure they probably do. Lord knows I've come across my share of fake accounts. Maybe some of them are from POF but most are from that lonely guy or gal that feel the need to fabricate. This is true with any social networking site. I personally see POF to be the most legitimate one out there.
Lets take yahoo personals or match.com. Most of their users aren't generated falsely but rather are generated from free, unpaid users. They allow people to create profiles that allow them to view others and do things like "wink" but don't allow actual emails to be read or sent. After said individual does finally get a response or is added to a favorite, they then have to subscribe so they can contact their so-called "love" interest. Once they finally get on, and can e-mail they are met with "unread" responses. Why is that? Well, it's because 90% of the people on the site are FREE users and can't contact them. Or perhaps they don't even log on anymore.
POF on the other hand is a different machine altogether. Matt's statistics sound very accurate from my experiences. Personally, I get a few e-mails every day but nothing groundbreaking by no means. Some of my average female friends on the same site will average 15 to 20 a day! lol Good lord! I've asked them about the content of the e-mails and how they sift through them and again, Matt's right! Witty subject lines, good looks, and non-creepy e-mails win the day! I applaud you for pointing out what every guy needs to hear. Personally, I think it's funny that most men play the numbers game... sounds like wasted effort if you ask me. A little effort goes a long ways my friends! :o)
Although I tend to agree with Matt to a certain degree, one major point that I can't leave untouched is the issue of men messaging women on initial contacts.
ReplyDeleteSure, there may be several duplicated subject lines such as "Hey" and "what's up?" and "you are gorgeous!".... But you can't ignore the fact that this is partly the girl's fault. I can vouch that 95% of these women (at least) on POF have next to NOTHING in their profiles that could count as any substantiating interest to spark a guy's creative mind, thus piecing together a well-crafted message. Like one poster said earlier, why would a guy bother spending so much time time if there's a high chance there will be unsatisfactory results? Why would somebody invest lots of money into a company if there's a low rate of return?
There are far too many girls who have "I am a fun-loving, loyal and kind person. Message me to find out more"
How could you possibly craft a Shakespearean novel from this premise? It's insane to expect anything less than a "what's up?" in this case. Guys get criticized far too often fr not being original, yet girls are allowed to have these carbon copy profiles that are extreemly brief and all sound the same.
If you're going to be successful at all in online dating, the key is timing. Don't message a girl unless she is online when you do so. That way, she's just browsing the site, and she'll see a new message in her inbox. If you wait until she signs out, and THEN send her a message... then the next day when she signs in, she'll see your message mixed in with a surplus of messages piled to the roof, and any originality you may have had is now lost.
I'm not Brad Pitt, and I'm certainly not owning my own house, or even my own car. But aren't I entitled to happiness as well?
I ignore any girls who write in their profile "i'm tired of the jerk guys!"
Not only does that show a poor judge of character on her part, it also signifies to me that she is NOT gonna change her ways, and she is gonna continue to scope out the bad boys.
Girls are hopeless. I have had more girls eyeing me in public places. I just need to learn how to approach girls, which I have trouble with. I thought POF would be an approrpriate venue for me in that respect, but all it does is bring a guy down.
Not to mention the obvious fact that many of the pics posted are as fake as the profiles. Like the women whose profile says they are 50-some years old but in their pic they cannot possible be over 30!! There are a lot of deceptive issues on the POF site that Matt missed though I believe his overall research was effective and real if not ethical. However; let us all remember a dating site is not responsible for content posted by members especially a free site. I have had bad experiences on other sites too not specifically designed for dating alone but for other things (ie; Bear-share) so I guess you take the good with the bad and try to keep it real is all I know to do.
DeleteI disagree with the interesting messages getting you more dates etc. I know guys who've done similar experiments to you, but with male profiles using super hot pics they lifted. Even with very lame profiles and a simple hi, they got tons of responses and also messages from women who initiated contact. An interesting message will at best get you a reply that says thanks, but I don't think we're compatible which is code for I don't think your pic is hot. It's happened to me a few times.
ReplyDeletePOF and online dating in general is a complete waste of time for guys; at best you can maybe have a one night hookup with a girl that is way below your standards, but honestly I'd rather have a romantic evening with my hand :) I suggest that guys man up and approach women the old fashioned way with eye contact and a smile and a hello if the girl smiles back.
One of the problems i noticed about POF and some of the profiles on the free site is some do look fake. I guess it's the risk you take not everybody is going to be who they say they are. It's not that hard for a guy to post a picture of himself dressed as a woman to pick up men. Or a woman either. I honestly haven't had one message back from any of the girls i messaged and my messages weren't lame this has been my issue with this site. Here's a sample of what i write to a girl on Pof ex.How's it going? My name is_ i was reading over your profile and found we have a lot in common I'm _ years old and live in _ i have lived here since i was 12 coming from _ _. I see you enjoy _ too,so do i! I enjoy the outdoors,warm weather,cook-outs,camping,hiking,and bike riding. I haven't been riding in years. I'd like to get a good mountain bike and start riding again. I'm a down to earth guy whom is down to earth,sweet,mature,and respectful. My ideal first date would be a nice quiet dinner and a nice drive where we can talk and get to know each other. I joined a dating site because there just isn't any really good,safe places to meet singles at,I'm tired of the bar scene and i am serious about meeting someone i can connect with and share my life with. Well i hope we can talk soon and get to know each other better. Take care: _
ReplyDeleteWhat I've found with pretty much all dating sites is that if the girl's profile is even real. That most of the girls have no intention on ever meeting anyone, they are not even there to get to know someone online.
ReplyDeleteThey are there for the attention and like the ego boost. I bet most are already in a relationship, and are just having fun with their friends to see who can get the most messages to ignore.
It's really sad that this seems to be accepted on these sites. If a dating site was serious about getting members together. Then they would scan their database for users who bulk unread/delete every message they get over and over. This should be a flag to them, that this person is wasting their 'paying customers' time.
But this will never happen because that would lower their overall 'member base' and if guys actually saw the count of real girls who were looking for someone. There would be a big reduction in revenue.
Matt, your experiment is a real eye opener and I applaude you for posting the results. I am a professional business person with above average looks and a 32 inch waistline. Own my cars, several homes, have a quick wit (at least I'm told) and believe chivalry isn't dead. That said, I have had the same results as the other men who posted on this blog. At first I thought it me, or my profile sucked, or someone was standing behind me with two fingers up. Turns out this site IS bullshit. The person who mentioned how quickly an email is read/deleted so quickly really hit a note. Happens all the time! Then I wonder what I said/didn't say. Your research and the remarks of your anonymous adversary have really cleared this up for me. I'm a good person who would be a good date (or least returning an email to) So kiss my ass POF and match. You both suck.
ReplyDeleteDude, it's their loss really. We all have to remember this phrase. Online dating websites, are where women go to date up and men go to date DOWN.
DeleteTo all who kept on about 'lame' emails. You should note that plenty of fish is not an online 'dating'. It is simply an avenue for both sexes to contact and later meet each other in the physical hence no art is necessary or needed to craft any email to 'attract' the females. The art of dating -if there is anything like that only come into place after meeting each other.
ReplyDeleteWhy most of the females dont reply is the same reason they are still single and indeed which led them to seek love via the internet in the first place -arrogance and the tendency to keep looking for shadows instead of the real thing. That's what I found out in the very few meetings I had - after writing many so called 'lame' emails. It is true females may be receiving large number of emails but there are very simple and easy ways for them to acknowledge in form of acceptance or refusal. My style: I simply send you one email and if within 3 days I received no reply I delete it from my 'sent messages/inbox and move on -there are literally thousands on there. I dont bother with second email or chat/im.
I'm a male and have been on POF for on and off 2 years. I’ve dated several nice women for the site. Not at all surprised about fake profiles if the pic look too good to me and they saying stuff like they love making out or pole dancing red flags go up.
ReplyDeleteI was shocked to find out that many men actually use Hi as a subject line. But hey almost every women that's ever emailed me uses it. When I send emails I’d say I get about a 30% reply rate. I don’t send that many. I understand I'm not Brad Pitt's brother so I don’t send 10's email very often and way too much competition. But for subject lines I always try to use something off their profile, but if its too short I will use stuff like "Oh my god! I cant believe u did that!", "your mom will love me", "Halloween party wanted","infectious smile". Another trick I've used in the email or subject line that I feel corny every time I do it but its worked 4 for 4 is I’ll say that they remind of my favourite actress takes a little research to find one that looks similar but hey I'm already on the computer. Clever compliments work better then ur hot. Such as "I hate risking the thought of sounding like a tool like the masses of other guys that get on here and say “uh….you’re hot”, but I have to tell you that you are absolutely beautiful…..stunning actually"
I like to start with that if I cant think of anything else. Try this ending Check out my profile to see if you'd like to continue. If you read it and want to blow me off, then simply fill out the official blow off form on carbon paper, have it notarized, mail one copy to me, keep one for yourself. It might just be easier to write me back! ;) Seriously though, I hope to talk to you soon, have a great day.
Well that's my two cents, hope I have helped my fellow man.
How do you edit subject lines on PlentyofFish? I don't see that option.
ReplyDeleteI believe that POF recently got rid of subject lines much in the same way that OkCupid works. I do not know why they have done this but I think it's probably a move in the right direction as it eliminates one more thing for people to screw up. Now it's not about scanning your inbox subjects looking for something interesting; you have to actually open up each message.
DeleteDespite what so many POF skanks write. Length of e-mail or shirt off mirror shot. Doesn't get rejected by any of them. As long as you're HOT, educated, 10yrs younger and make a great income. They will swarm you, like ants at a picnic.
ReplyDeletePOF, is actually called, FATS with TATTS! And please someone explain to me. When did having multiple, illegitimate children, by multiple different cocks. Become trendy, chic and cool? Rather then the age old, tried and true, trailer trash, skank hobag red flag, that it truly is.